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The career evolution of retired emcee turned A-list actor Mahershala Ali has been nothing short of phenomenal to watch in real-time. Hiding in plain sight amongst the Hollywood elite, it’s easy to forget the Oakland-native is the first Black actor to win two Academy Awards in the same Best Supporting Actor category, as well as the first Muslim to grab an Oscar.
Even crazier to imagine is the fact that despite appearing in blockbuster films like The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, The Hunger Games, Alita: Battle Angel, Moonlight, Green Book and a host of others, alongside television roles in The 4400, House of Cards, and True Detective, Ali has yet to lead a feature-length film.
Though the Eternals-post credit scene introduced him as half-breed vampire hunter Blade for his eventual standalone MCU film, his first leading role will be Apple TV+’s upcoming sci-fi drama Swan Song. Set for release on Dec. 17, the film stars Ali as Cameron, a visual artist and father faced with a terminal illness who is presented with the opportunity to have a carbon copy clone replace him when his eventual death occurs. Written and directed by Benjamin Cleary in his first feature-length film, Swan Song also features A-list acting from Naomie Harris, Awkwafina, and Glenn Close.
Speaking with Ali, the actor discusses his reasons behind choosing Swan Song as his first leading film in spite of working with an unproven director, his thoughts on human cloning, a future music project and his current taste in hip-hop.
Can you recall the decision to take on your first full-length leading role as Cameron in Swan Song considering this is also director Benjamin Cleary’s first feature-length film?
First of all, the story was so good. You read things… When you start reading stories, you kind of like, a voice pops up, right? You kind of start hearing the character. You hear and you start feeling the character. Cameron was really speaking to me. He was really resonating with me. And just the dilemma felt very fresh. It felt unique and I just hadn’t seen this story before. So when speaking with Ben, having seen his short film Stutterer, it gave me a sense of his potential as a filmmaker. It kind of allowed me to see how sensitive of a soul he was by having made the choice to make the film Stutterer. And just reading this film and seeing how much care and heart was in the film but how it also asked some tough questions, that gave me a lot of confidence.
And also just getting to speak with him and spend some time with him, I got a real sense that there was a real collaborative spirit there. That for a young filmmaker, he wasn’t somebody who was trying to be a know-it-all or had all the answers and whatnot. That he was down to answer some tough questions and to take suggestions and to sort of change and manipulate things a little bit if he was feeling what I was saying. And so, that was our relationship throughout.
At a certain point, I wasn’t even thinking about how many films he had made. But what you’re saying is really true. It could be a crapshoot working with first-time filmmakers and it often can not go well. But Ben, Ben was amazing. Ben was amazing, and I’m so glad I signed up to go on this journey with him.
There’s this classic idea of man playing God in Swan Song. Where were your thoughts on the idea of copying human beings before reading the script and did that change as you leaned more into your role as Cameron?
Well, I’m very conscious of the fact that this is a story, right? At the end of the day, it’s entertainment, but the questions that it asks, or at least what it leaves you with, can be very real. And so, is it something that I would personally do just in my awareness on so many levels, I would lean towards respecting the natural order of life and knowing that you never know when your number is going to be called. So, you got to be as present as possible in this time now and take full advantage of the time that you have.
But for purposes of our story, considering the context of Cameron’s life, considering his wife and the trauma that she has experienced with losing her mom but then losing her twin brother and sort of the emotional fracture that caused for her, Cameron is looking at the fact that his wife is pregnant, in her first trimester, and they have a 10-year-old son. He’s about to leave the kid without a father and his wife without a partner, and this new baby coming in the world without someone.
So, I absolutely understand his struggle, but also his willingness to engage in the process of potentially cloning himself, because of him understanding how serious the stakes are. But as far as cloning as a reality, it’s something that we’re obviously dealing with in our culture, because there is some form of cloning that’s been happening like we clone meat and do different things of that nature. But yeah, it’s just the reality of our world now.
There’s this theme of how convenient technology can be for better or worse. Do you see a balance or imbalance in humans’ engagement with technology?
Well, of course. I think, we invent things, we create things and they’re put out into the culture, into the ethos and suddenly, we’re adapting to a world that has… We’re still adapting to a world that has had social media introduced to it, like 15 years ago or something like that. It feels like it’s been around forever, but it’s a blip on the radar at this point when you look at time. And so, we are constantly trying to adjust to and adapt to all these new things sort of being introduced to our environment. And so, I think, there’s a world of conversation happening about the health of technology, the health of social media, what are the real repercussions of some of these conveniences that we have and carrying phones on us all the time, and where does our attention go.
And it’s something that I think we all, as individuals, have to take inventory of in our own lives and decide for ourselves what is too much. You can never just do what everybody else is doing. There’s a degree of all of us participating in it together, but then, we, as individuals always have to pull back and begin to gauge what is really healthy for ourselves. And for some of us, that’s about, like, cutting ourselves off from that entirely, or even taking a break for periods of time. But the world continues to move, and expand, and grow, and evolve. It’s just the truth in our lives where we’re constantly navigating it and trying to be healthy. And I just think that’s a question left for every individual to decide for themselves, how much they want to participate or use certain technologies and receive the benefits therefrom.
Do you have a favorite piece of technology featured in the film and what was the process of acting in those scenes?
Well, you know what, there’s really not a lot of technology in the film, even using the phone and whatnot. You see me double tap my thumbs and do things of that nature. So, in reality, when I was actually shooting, I rarely had anything on me other than the earbuds if you really pay attention to the film. What was kind of cool was the first moment in the film. This little bot rolling by that asked me what my order is, whatever, and it gives me the Echo Bar and whatnot. I didn’t honestly really engage too much in the technology. The car that they built was pretty cool, but they definitely enhanced it in VFX later on. But just to see some of the things they built out, the way that they had built out the aura house, the laboratory, was pretty fascinating and just really beautiful to work in and be in.
So, I think, you can see it in the film. The technology in the world, it feels so organic that you don’t really notice a lot. It’s woven into the film in a really natural way. So, honestly, I didn’t have a lot I was handling. Even in playing the video games, they’re almost like these little rocks. Those are controllers. But there was nothing really crazy that I was getting to necessarily handle.
There’s a scene where your on-screen wife Poppy played by Naomie Harris sounds so excited when she finds out how similar her and Cameron’s taste is. She pulls out a vinyl of J Dilla’s Donuts. We all know you have serious underground hip-hop credibility. How’s that music project you mentioned around the Green Book press run going?
Well, I’ve been producing and making beats for a little while now. I got a project with an artist that I’ve been working on where I produce the beats for. And so, hopefully, within the next eight to 12 months, we will drop something that I produced.
Is there anything that’s catching your ear musically on the hip-hop side of things more recently?
Oh, man. I love what Mach-Hommy is doing, the whole umbrella of artists that Alchemist works with, DJ Muggs and whatnot. I love great producers. I love MCs, Roc Marciano. What Griselda has done is phenomenal, following them from way back in 2014, 2015, and seeing what they’ve evolved into is crazy. Navy Blue… This is a good time in hip-hop right now, actually, because, obviously, you have these huge commercial artists and you see what J. Cole and all these people have been able to do and really hit on a major commercial level, and Kendrick, and all those people. But I actually feel like there are some real reflections of the Golden Era happening within a certain pocket of hip-hop that is really unfolding right now.
There’s a healthy two handfuls of artists out there that I’m always checking for and seeing where they’re going. And it’s crazy to see… Like, having had a copy of Mach-Hommy’s H.B.O. on some little tape that he was selling for $700, or something like that, [and] now seeing him sitting next to Jay-Z or something, is crazy. And it’s a really rewarding thing to be, like, a fan and watch people navigate and then end up kind of like being on Jimmy Fallon or something. You’d be like, “Wow, how did that happen?” It’s crazy. So, yeah, there’s a lot out there that I enjoy and I appreciate.