Photo by Jerome Shaw
If you’re looking for insights into Kanye West’s creative universe, there aren’t many people better to speak with than BoogzDaBeast. The Grammy-winning producer is one of Ye’s oldest collaborators, having worked with him for nearly 25 years. The two first came across each other as teenagers, crossing paths several times in rap battle spaces, before formally meeting when Boogz’s rap group, the Euphonics, went to Ye’s home studio to record. During the session, Boogz and Kanye shared beats they were both making, and as Boogz tells Complex, “The rest is history.”
Fast forward to 2022, and BoogzDaBeast is still a vital part of Kanye’s creative team, after contributing to albums like Yeezus, Cruel Summer, Kids See Ghosts, and Jesus Is King. In the past two years, he’s taken a lead role in the production of both Donda and Donda 2. In addition to landing production credits on many of the songs, including standouts like “Hurricane,” “Pure Souls,” “No Child Left Behind,” “Believe What I Say,” “Moon,” “Heaven and Hell,” Boogz tells Complex that he wore many hats during the making of these albums, serving as head of production.
When describing the recording process, Boogz illustrates a very collaborative environment, where everyone pitched in. He tells stories about Fivio Foreign and Pusha-T carrying boxes and moving tables between recording sessions, and reveals that Kanye wasn’t afraid to get his hands dirty.
“Listen, Kanye will pick up the broom,” he says. “He’ll be like, ‘Man, it’s a little dirty in here.’ He’ll start picking up trash. He’s like, ‘Can we move this table?’ And he’ll just grab the end of the table and you grab the other end. When I tell you he’s hands-on, he’s hands-on. It’s his album. It’s his project. It’s his baby. It has his mother’s name on it. He’s not about to let that just be controlled by somebody else. Not at all. He’ll grab your trash and throw it away. He’s like, ‘You done with this?’ And he’ll just throw that shit away. He’s really down to earth, man. The media shits on him, but he’s real cool, down to earth. Always has been.”
In February, several songs from Donda 2 were uploaded to Kanye’s Stem Player, and as of late March, fans are still waiting for the full, finished album to be released. Unfortunately, Boogz is cryptic when asked about whether the album is finished or not. “Only the boss can tell you that,” he says. In the meantime, Boogz was able to be more candid about what goes on behind the scenes in Kanye’s world. Catching up with Complex this week, Boogz spoke about the making of both Donda albums, working out of the Mercedes-Benz stadium for 30 days, and more. The interview, lightly edited for clarity, is below
How did you first get into music and production?
My older brother was a DJ, and growing up [we were] watching Beat Street and Krush Groove, Rap City, Friday Night Videos—anything that was available as far as hip-hop was concerned. So, of course, I wanted to be a rapper like everybody else. Nobody knew what a producer did. I wanted to be LL Cool J. And then my friends and I had a little crew. We were rapping, but nobody would give us beats. Producers were hard to find, and if they did have beats, they were giving it to the artist they were working with. So I basically started making beats so my group could have beats. That’s the short story.
How and when did you first meet Kanye?
I had a crew called Euphonics. We were doing a lot of hip-hop shows, and we used to do the local party scene heavy. Sometimes there were freestyle battles for small cash prizes, and [Kanye] was always there. He was ready to rap if they were freestyling, and he was ready to battle if they were battling.
I’d met him a few times, but the time we formally met, a couple guys and I were going to record a demo, and a friend of mine said, “We should go record it over at Kanye’s house.” I didn’t know he recorded. Having equipment in your house was a big thing. It’s not like now, where you can go get a computer from Best Buy, download some programs, and buy a microphone from Guitar Center. This was different. You had to make a financial investment. So we were going to record the song, and he picked us up.
I think I was about 18, and I was producing by this time, so I started playing beats for him in the car and he said, “I like those.” He started playing some beats he made, and I was blown away. I couldn’t believe somebody that was only a year older than me was this advanced. It was kind of like watching Kobe or LeBron playing basketball in high school. They’re ready for the league at such a young age. So we came, we did the song, and after that, I just asked him if he could give me some sounds, something to help me with my production. He picked me up the next day, and the rest is history.
“Kanye’s recording in the coach’s locker room, and he’s sleeping there. You saw the setup. That was real. He slept in there all 30 days. And it was successful.”
What do you think it is about your style that made Kanye want to work with you?
My style fits him. I have a hard side, but then I have an R&B side. It’s always going to be hip-hop. You’ve got to remember, this was the ’90s and everything was hard. Even Bad Boy, for all the shiny-suited things they say about Puff, Bad Boy had some of the hardest beats in the history of hip-hop, as well as some commercial singles. So we were caught right in that era. That’s when we started really getting into production. So Kanye was everything. He was Puff. He was Timbaland. He was the RZA. In terms of style. Me, I was just hard. I didn’t have any soft edges. Maybe I was Robin to Batman. We didn’t really know what the hell we were doing. He started a production company, Kanman Productions. I was the first person that we brought on. We just wanted to be the hit man. We just wanted to be like Bad Boys. We wanted to be like Roc-A-Fella.
How has your approach to creating music changed over the years?
It’s funny because I would say it hasn’t. I wouldn’t say my process changed. I’ve been doing the same thing this whole time. Timing is everything. Sometimes your sound may be advanced, and I’m not saying that egotistically. Sometimes the industry or the public, they’re just not ready for it yet. And then everything goes in a cycle. We got back to sampling ‘90s records. Well, that’s our era. We call them the flips. When the flips came back, I jumped right in. That’s how you start getting Dave East with the Jodeci sample, Teyana with the Mase samples.
Even though we still have trap and drill happening at the same time, there’s more of the ‘90s sound being brought back. It’s not uncommon to hear a flip on someone’s album right now. So I was still making beats. I’m still here. Now you’re going back to my high school years? You’re not going to leave me out. It’s my shit. You’re copying us now. You know what I mean?
After working on Jesus Is King, it’s been reported that you brought 166 new beats to Wyoming for Donda. Can you talk about that?
Let me just say this—we never stop working. So we already had the theme for Jesus Is King, which is gospel. But at the same time, while I’m not working on Jesus Is King, what am I doing? I’m still creating. I’m still working on new records. So about a month after Jesus Is King had been released, he called me to Wyoming. He was like, “Man, we’re going back in, we’re about to do a new album. Let’s keep this going. What you got?” So I came to Wyoming and I had like 166 beats. Let me clarify, not full beats. Let me say 166 ideas. Sometimes you’ve just got fragments and ideas you want to present. But it doesn’t matter, because with him, he’s a producer as well, which is different than with most artists.
With most artists, you have to come with a full idea. With him, you can come with a small music loop and he’ll see the whole vision for it. So I came with 166 ideas and he freestyles about 99 of them, and we constructed and worked on them. Again, he’s a producer. He’s not the guy that doesn’t touch the beat. He’s not the guy that sits there and just slaps his name on shit. That’s not him. I don’t think his ego can handle not being a part of the record. No, he was very hands-on. And the idea, he brings it home, even if the initial concept was yours. By the time he gets to the finish line, his hands are all over it. His hands are dirty. He’s definitely in there.
What is it like working with Kanye on projects where he also acts as a producer?
You have to remember, this is my teacher. This is my sensei. I’m still excited to work with him. Even though we’ve had incredible success, I still get geeked about it. [I want to see] what his take on it is. What is his idea? I know what I’ve done and I know where I would like to take it. But then you see where he’s taking it, and you’re like, “Oh, man, I didn’t even think of that.” So now that we’re going in this direction, along with the direction I presented, it’s almost like a new beat all over again. You may have hit a roadblock with the beat, or you may have taken it as far as you can take it, and then there’s another producer to say, “Oh, what about this? What if we try this?” And now your whole spark of energy is back and you’re ready.
It’s fun working with a producer and an artist. We’re working on the music, but he’s also freestyling or scatting ideas for the song at the same time. It’s a process like nobody’s ever worked, and if you talk to anybody that’s worked around him, they’re going to tell you the same thing. They’re going to say, “I’ve never worked on an album like this… this way.” You can’t be lazy over there.
“Kanye’s hands-on. It’s his album. It’s his project. It’s his baby. It has his mother’s name on it. He’s not about to let that just be controlled by somebody else. Not at all. He’ll grab your trash and throw it away.”
Do you find that you wear multiple hats during the creation of Kanye’s albums?
Absolutely. I did a little of everything. As far as production, I was one of the lead producers. Also, I was the production manager. I was head of production, meaning as far as scheduling, making sure that the artists had the right equipment. The hiring, the firing, unfortunately, of engineers, the staff people for the whole project. Even A&R administration, everything. But that’s how it is over there. It’s a team effort. It’s a family environment. You put on whatever hat’s available. There are some people that are just there to engineer, but when you’re one of the 25-year friends and you see a need for something, you do it. That’s just how we are. That’s just how it goes.
In the end, you realize you’ve done more than just rap. You’ve done more than just make beats. It’s not uncommon to see Fivio Foreign carrying some boxes. It’s going to happen. Trust me, when I tell you. You might see Pusha-T over there moving a table or something. We’ve got to get it done. They’ll tell you. He’s the boss. He’s the big man. Oh, and he’ll pick up things himself. Listen, Kanye will pick up the broom. The billionaire. He’ll be like, “Man, it’s a little dirty in here.” He’ll start picking up trash. He’s like, “Can we move this table?” And he’ll just grab the end of the table and you grab the other end. When I tell you hands-on, he’s hands-on. It’s his album. It’s his project. It’s his baby. It has his mother’s name on it. He’s not about to let that just be controlled by somebody else. Not at all. He’ll grab your trash and throw it away. He’s like, “You done with this?” And he’ll just throw that shit away. Really down to earth, man. The media shits on him, but he’s real cool, down to earth. Always has been.
What was it like working on Donda in Mercedes-Benz Stadium?
I was there every day. I don’t think anyone can say that they did an album in a football stadium. That alone makes it different. Even before we started working, that was different. Think about having to set up all the recording stations and production spaces. Then we’ve got the great Mike Dean mixing records in the same place.
We took over this locker room and we set up the space for Mike Dean. We have all these drop cloths and stuff, trying to make it insulated so the sound doesn’t bounce anywhere, so he can mix the record. But 20 feet away is a 70-plus-thousand-seater that we were filling up in the next three days. And we did it twice!
I don’t know if you’ve ever been inside of a football stadium, but it has a locker room, a coach’s locker room, and an assistant’s locker room. You have the bathroom, the closet, and all these different spaces. They’re all occupied. We would take the broom closet and put a microphone in there. That’s where so-and-so-so-and-so will be doing his verses. I know this for a fact because I was the one setting them up. So we had Pardi Fontaine, a good friend of mine and an amazing writer, set up in one of the box suites where you watch the game from. But it’s just a microphone, a computer, and he’s in there recording himself. Then you have Kanye, he’s in the coach’s locker room recording and he’s sleeping there. You saw the setup. That was real. He slept in there all 30 days. And it was successful.
“2 Chainz is right there on the locker room bench, writing his verse, recording on a microphone that’s set up on a lunchroom table. No luxury. Like Gilligan’s Island.”
Was there always a plan to work on a sequel to Donda?
I can’t say yes, because I don’t recall it. All I know is we’re always working, so I knew something would come after Donda. I can’t say that it was Donda 2—I just knew something else would come. Just like I knew something else would come after Jesus Is King. But as far as a follow-up to the previous, not really, because he’s never really done a part two, if you’ve noticed.
What are the challenges with continuously working on projects?
I don’t stop. You hear people saying, “Music is my life.” Well, it actually is for me. It’s enjoyable. It’s my entertainment. It’s my job. It’s also my duty. So in that regard, I feel there’s a responsibility there. I want to do it. I have to do it, and I enjoy doing it, so there’s not really too many things that can pull me away from it. And it’s ever-changing. It’s ever-challenging. It doesn’t exist prior to you creating it. The beat that I’m going to make today? No one’s ever heard it. I haven’t heard it. So to think that every day you get to create something and bring something into the universe that’s never been here… That’s a pretty interesting power. Why would you want to do anything else?
What is your favorite memory from working on both Donda albums?
The whole stadium setup. We were a family up in there—even people that you didn’t necessarily know too much beforehand, like a producer, a writer, or even some of the staff members. Remember when [Denzel Washington’s character in Remember the Titans] took them away to that camp? They didn’t know each other, or hated each other. But after they came back, they were like brothers. The rest of the world looked crazy, but to them, they were like, “No, we’re brothers.” That’s kind of how it was when it was over.
I’m telling you, when we got in his pocket and when we found our stride, it was over. Everybody in there was like a family at the end. We didn’t even leave. You got your hair cut there. Like I said, Fivio’s doing his verse—he’ll go get his line up and he’ll go back and keep recording. Kanye will go in there, get his hair cut. Shout out to Chef Willie for keeping the food going, because we didn’t have to leave to eat. We had Chef Willie there, three meals a day. So there was no reason for you to leave at all. Now, everybody didn’t stay in the bunker every night, except Kanye; but there was a hotel like a block away and we were all there. So trust me, we were there. It’s not a joke. It’s not a lie. We were in there for 30 days, and we had meetings every morning. Every morning at 10 o’clock. I think I worked from 10 a.m. to 4 a.m. or 5 a.m. every day.
Donda is up for several awards at the Grammys. What was your reaction to the news?
It still doesn’t register. And it’s so surreal, but a blessing. I’m appreciative of all my blessings. I thank God, always. As far as this being nominated for Album of the Year, I mean, going back to some of the things we were just speaking about, we worked our ass off on this album. If you go back and listen to the first listening party, and when you listen to the second one, that’s a different album. So imagine having the album about 85 percent or 90 percent done, but then, after listening to the crowds and getting feedback, he’s like, “Oh, we’ve got to tighten this up.” And “tighten up” might mean just a little screw here and there. But others might mean a complete breakdown of the song construction.
He wore orange in the first one. He wore black ever since. Nobody pays attention to that. We changed it. We took out some of the super happiness. We put in little darker chords, more orchestral sounds and brass instruments and organs in there. We switched it up. That’s what the listening parties were for.
But remember, we’re hosting these people at the same time. I really want you to understand, we’re hosting 70,000 people at the same place where we’re creating the music. That’s pretty weird. That’s like having a party in the backyard and working upstairs. This is going on at the same time. And then we’re in Atlanta, so there’s all these celebrities coming by. You might trip out, crack some jokes with some people, and then you’ve got to get back to work. We had a goal to reach. In the midst of all the headlines, the Drakes, this and that, this is going on. We’ve got to stay focused. We’ve got to work. We had producers held up in the restaurant. We had writers. I’m talking about people that are stars now, like Baby Keem. Baby Keem was making beats and writing at the dining room table. You’ve never seen anything like this.
2 Chainz worked with a lot of songs on that album. This is a rich guy, a very good friend. But 2 Chainz is right there on the locker room bench, writing his verse, recording on a microphone that’s set up on a lunchroom table. No luxury. Like Gilligan’s Island. And we’re all in uniform. We got on black. Black Yeezys, black pants, black T-shirt, black hat, black hoodie if you’re cold; with women, too. Oh, everyone.
Is Donda 2 finished?
Only the boss can tell you that.
Did you catch Netflix’s Jeen-Yuhs documentary?
Watch it? I’m in it.
What is one memory that sticks out the most from the time that was captured in the doc?
One of them that sticks out very, very far is the chaining day. Chaining day was the shit. He didn’t know he was getting that chain. We were up there. Jay was in town. I think that was like August of 2002. That was like 20 years ago. The album didn’t come out until ‘04, so that had to be ‘02.
Kanye was like, “Yo, we’re going to be up there,” so we went up there and it was cool. The whole Roc was there drinking Armadale. We got to stand backstage, then next thing we know, we gravitate to the stage. We’re all standing in the back. Then Jay and Dame, they do the whole, “Kanye, you want to tell them something?” If you notice, Dame was taking off the chain as Kanye was saying, “I’m the newest member.” He didn’t know Dame was going to give him that chain. He was like, “Holy shit, Jay gave me the chain.” We felt like it was our chain. We all put it on once over the years. Everybody had that chain on before, trust me. That was crazy. I remember it was so crazy getting out of there. He jumped in my car, and I had to drive him over to his car. I’ll never forget that night. Because if I’m correct, I think that’s the first night he met Pharrell. If you go to the Jeen-Yuhs part, in the scene, he met Pharrell in the hallway, I was standing behind him. I had a red cup in my hand. Yeah, that’s our guy. That’s the boss. That’s our leader. I know that sounds very weird, but we look at it that way. I think it sounds cool.
What else are you working on that you can tell us about right now?
Latto is coming out Friday. I got one on there. I really like that record. Oh, Pusha-T, and more Kanye. Oh, I can’t say the rest. Vory. Yeah, a lot of artists. Things have been pitched, things have been recorded. I’m interested in everything. I’m not one of those elitist producers. I want to be a part of the new signees. Send them over here. They’re the future as well. So I like to catch the new people when they’re coming. I don’t care if they just signed at Atlantic yesterday. Send them to me.
You’ve referred to Kanye as your “sensei” or “leader.” What is the biggest lesson you’ve learned from him?
Do not stop, stay true to your vision, and don’t compromise your vision. Don’t be afraid to step away if something’s not the way you like it or the way you want it. That doesn’t mean don’t compromise. That doesn’t mean don’t try to work with people. But if it’s going to compromise your integrity or your dignity, absolutely step away from it.
I know this is stuff that your parents teach you as well, but in this business… Remember Squid Game? Remember they were on that stepladder thing, and somebody had to go before them? Kanye has stepped on all of the landmines before me. He stepped on all the landmines before GLC, before Pusha-T… He’s already been through the fire. So I’m privy to watch. I get to see the results already, which is why certain mistakes I haven’t made myself. He took all the risk. He gets all the spoils, but he’s not afraid to take those risks. So his first fucked-up contract means I never had a fucked-up contract. I can consult with him.
When it comes to beats, you don’t play yourself. You don’t get undersold or undervalued. So if they’re like, “Man, they offered me $5,000 for this beat,” he’s like, “I don’t know, tell them $10,000.” He’s already been there. He’s graduated. Let’s say I want to be an artist. Who better to consult with? I’m a producer and I’m one of his producers. Who better to consult with? He knows what it is. So that’s a jewel. A lot of people don’t get to have somebody that’s already been there. And he’s been there as a producer and an artist.
What was it like working on Chloe Bailey’s debut solo single “Have Mercy?”
Well, due to COVID, a lot of people weren’t working in the studio together, so the track was worked on by myself, Murda Beatz, and my guys FNZ. Murda was doing most of the one-on-ones with Chloe and a lot of remote stuff, too. But we had all worked on the beat together.
Now, this is important… Megan passed on it. Cardi B passed on it. I would have to say almost every amazing female rapper in the game passed on that. Shout out to DreamDoll. I don’t think DreamDoll passed on it. I think DreamDoll liked it and then it happened where DreamDoll didn’t get it. Then Chloe got it. And after that, I mean, the rest is absolute history. But I do want to say that the beat was pitched. Not that exact beat that Chloe got, but the “Have Mercy” sample was pitched to numerous people. Shout out to Chloe, and shout out to Parkwood Entertainment, because they heard it and it’s what it is now. It’s a classic in my book. I don’t think no one’s ever going to forget that record. It’s definitely one of those. You know how old people say, “Y’all don’t know nothing about that?” That’s what we’re going to be saying. I’m very pleased with that record.
What was your favorite memory from working on Pusha-T’s “Hear Me Clearly?”
That was a beat that I had made in basketball shorts and a T-shirt at 3 o’clock in the morning. And I sent it to Pusha—I don’t even know when. It was the next day, or a week later, and he was like, “Yo, this is crazy. I’m messing with this one. Hold this one for me.” Then some time went by—a few months. They finally sent me the first verse. I heard the first verse, and I was like, “Come on, man.” It’s like watching Steph Curry shoot the three-pointer and shit. That was just the first verse, and it was so raw. It was so gutter. Wait until you hear some more coming on the new album. It’s real grimy. It’s real gutter. And then the lyrical level is just as high as it can get.
What’s the most important thing people should know about you right now?
That I’m serious as a heart attack. [Laughs.] No, I love this. I love hip-hop. I love music. Notice I care about every beat that I make. I care about everything I do within this business. There’s never a moment where I don’t care. I’m attached to everything. This shit is personal for me. It’s no different than, let’s say, the journalists or the musicians. This is what we do. It’s who we are. This is what I’m best at. This is what I care about. I’m not playing around. It’s not a clout chase. I’ve been with [Kanye] for 20-something years. I’ve been doing this more than half of my life. You don’t have to compromise your integrity. You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to do. But if it’s what you want to do, you should do it.